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Post by paweaver on Feb 21, 2008 23:57:38 GMT -5
Twine weaving is very old. This is the second twined bag that I have made. Some of you might have seen pics of it in progress.
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Post by joanne on Feb 22, 2008 1:20:24 GMT -5
Very nice Liza!
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Post by beaudro on Feb 22, 2008 9:34:29 GMT -5
all this time I'm looking for someone who does twinning, here she is. Can you tell me how, or send me to a book? webpage? anything. I can find oblique weave, and many more, but nothing on twine weave, I'm trying to finish a tumpline and for the brow band It should be twine weave, the straps oblique or diagnal. I would value that lesson really high if I could find out how to twine weave. notice the brow band on this tumpline, it's the only part i can't figure out.
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Post by paweaver on Feb 22, 2008 22:15:45 GMT -5
Yes, I can get you some book titles and help. But it might be just a little bit before I get a chance to gather them together. I promised myself I would finish the kids Christmas Mittens before I started my Feb project. I am going to try to turn something in for a craft competition. I have to have it in the mail before March. At the moment it is all designed it my head, but I have to get moving if I going to get it done. Sorry! Hope you don't mind the wait.
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Post by beaudro on Feb 22, 2008 23:10:47 GMT -5
I've waited 5 years I guess i can hold out a little longer, but thank you in advance, I really appreciate the chance to find out how to do this. I finished an assumption sash last year, the finger weaving wasn't so bad, but I'm at a loss on how to twine, and it's suppose to be simpler ,,, or at the basic level? The big boys up around grand portage all made the correct tumpline/burden strap with twinning, but i'm seldom ever around them to pick up on it, i should have paid close attention when i had the chance once. thank you, I'll remind you one day.
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Post by paweaver on Mar 2, 2008 16:27:43 GMT -5
I'm back! I sent the week on a special project. The book Ojibwa Crafts by Carrie A. Lyford has many different things in it one of which is twining. I believe that it was from here that I learned that the twine bags usually had three different rows of patterns in them. I believe that this book may be out of print, but you still may be able to find it. Salish Weaving Primitive and Modern by Oliver N Wells. This next book is really focused on twined rag rugs, but you can learn a lot from it. Twined Rag Rugs by Bobbie Irwin lxlxlxlxlx This is a simple explanation. l = hanging warp x = front and back weft. You simply cross the wefts (bring back to front and front to back) in between each warp. The weft is just one long piece of thread (yarn, string,ect) that has a butterfly (type of ball)of thread at each end. You want set this up so that one end is longer that the other so that they don't run out at the same time thus weakening your finished product.If this is not clear, ask me more questions. Putting it down in words is hard for me. I love to twine. I twine everything. The little tiny basket that I posted on here was twined from the bottom up. This bag I posted was twined from the top down. I've even twined baskets out of binder twine from hay bales. Attached is a pic of a fabric basket which I twined for my Mother for Christmas. basket basket bottom One thing to be aware of, is twining takes a lot more thread,yarn or whatever you are working with than you would expect. Be sure to have lots on hand. Question for you --- How long do you make your tumpline? We have one that we traded for so that I could "see" one with my hands before I make one. However, whenever I use it, it seems to always be too short. This is to be my spring project to do this tumpline that I have been working on in my head for so long. Do you know of any good books on oblique weaving? I'm always adding to my library. Or for that matter any book that you found specially clear and helpful about an old skill or craft?
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Post by joanne on Mar 2, 2008 17:04:57 GMT -5
Pretty basket. I keep trying my hand at twining tree sprouts but my twining leaves a lot to be desired! Yours looks very nice.
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Post by Buckskin Billy on Mar 2, 2008 22:14:33 GMT -5
cool basket. i bet that took some time
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Post by beaudro on Mar 2, 2008 22:58:31 GMT -5
hello and thank you Paweaver, I really appreciate the help. Hope soon I can start twining away. I almost bought a tumpline this year, it would have been $250.00 , so maybe now I can do my own. I used mine this last weekend, it is not the most correct as it is oblique on the brow , and braided down the strap. It is just almost too short for my gear at 18 foot, I'm thinking 20 foot would be better for me. It is made out of hemp, at first it was really course and would hurt, but throw it in the creek, sling it around a few times, let it dry out and it'll soften just fine. As for books on oblique finger weaving, the only thing I have is from the "Book of Buckskinning", volume 6. I think the website native tech has the rest of my own information. She also has a little info on twining, but it's not enough to teach me, someone has to hold my hand almost to show me anything. I really appreciate the information, i'll go start looking for that book, thank you!! allen
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Post by paweaver on Mar 3, 2008 22:19:46 GMT -5
O.k. Loren read what I wrote and gave me that look that says what are you talking about so maybe a few others couldn't understand what I said either. I am posting a pic. Warp threads run up and down. Weft threads go from right to weft (left). The weft is folded around the first warp string so that it is both in front and in back of that string. The string in the back is a heavy dark line in the pic. The string in the front is lighter. Now before you go to the second warp thread you bring the back string to the front (dark line) and the front string to the back(light line). This cross happens in between ever warp string. When you reach the end of the row, You cross your string and start back acrossed from left to right this time. I hope this is more helpful. I was ready twining when I found Native tech and I could not follow their instructions either. I thought maybe it was just me. Now I know that at least I'm not the only one that didn't understand. beaudro --- Wow! Mine is only 12 ft! I was thinking about making a 15 ft. Is there any records of how long the tumplines are that have surived?
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Post by beaudro on Mar 3, 2008 23:35:34 GMT -5
thank you for the correction, i wouldn't have caught it anyway, my left is right half the time. But in all manner of speaking, its no big thing. I go that first book on the way, i found a used one on amazon for 5 bucks, Bob Norment, who is one of the very few people still making a tumpline correctly tells me that most burden straps were about 18 feet or so, depending on the load carried. It's pretty evident that later in the years the strap became shorter and made differently however. Most of the ojibwa and great lakes used a moose hair for false embroidry, I have seen a few made with different colored warp/weft to get the same patterns, they may be modern renditions I don't know, the museum peices I know about were moose. It's sure been nice getting this information from you, not many will share, and not many know about this. By the way, if you look at my "only quill work" bag , you might recognize the weave on my strap. It's one of my favorites! thank you!
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Post by beaudro on Mar 4, 2008 10:25:45 GMT -5
I found a little more information on twining , a few at paleoplanet also helped out. I think my spelling was off and thats the reason I couldn't get a good search on google or anywhere else. Weft Twining , as some call it, seems to show up more in search feilds. As I searched more this morning I ran across this pic of a Nez Perce bag, it's made of a cotton thread warp and corn husk. It reminded me of the conversation going on in here so far. Since your post on this subject , paweaver, I have gotten a little further along with this. At least my research is going good,, now to get my feet wet with the project. thanks again,
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Post by paweaver on Jun 8, 2008 4:21:00 GMT -5
[quote author=beaudro board=other thread=400 post=2878 time=1204605 By the way, if you look at my "only quill work" bag , you might recognize the weave on my strap. It's one of my favorites! thank you! [/quote] HEY! Somehow I missed these posts. Sorry. But when I go back to your quill work the bag has no strap. I'm I looking at the wrong place? Also where is there info about twining on paleoplanet? I've been over there, but have not seen much on twining. Thanks for the tip on weft twine. I'll have to try looking it up that way.
I'm way behind in projects here...But I just bought 3 old magazines with articles on corn husk bags and twine weaving techniques. Can't wait for them to arrive. I'll let you know if they are any good. They better be for the price I paid! But there is so little written on the techniques.
My tumpline hemp is cut to length, but that is as far as she got.. maybe it will be moved back to a fall project. ;D
I would love to do a corn husk bag someday...but right now if I get through the next two weeks, then it will be off to work in Dad's tin shop. Can't wait!
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Post by beaudro on Jun 8, 2008 18:17:06 GMT -5
wow, it's been busy on the buckrub, i got all kinds of catching up to do here. PA, I thought i had posted a pic of the bag after I put a strap on it, when i finally got the bag finished I had to add the perfect strap to it, your very own Paweaver made this, and a few others I have also.
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Post by beaudro on Jun 8, 2008 18:29:44 GMT -5
Pa, I've tried all day to get back into paleoplanet and it won't open , not even the home page. But I remember getting a little information on twining. One of the biggest tips I got was when searching the best spelling is "twining" , it turned up more results. I do remember getting a decent idea of making a tumpline, some from your post and a few more from paleo. I should put out some effort to fingerweave and twine. A few months back I bought some great 2 ply wool yarn in several colors from Susan Wallace out of Nashville, she hand spins and dyes her own. It's great stuff, and most PC. But the tumpline is something I need most all of the time I go out, the only one i have ever made is oblique weave on the head band and braided down the rest of it. I use Hemp twine for them, it's a little stiff at first, but after you use it awhile it becomes really soft. I know a few guys that know how to wash them and make them even softer. They won't hurt your head if you choose to use them this way . I use mine across my shoulders. I buy hemp twine at walmart, it comes in three sizes, but hemp traders website also has it, probably the same thing. it's about 4 bucks for enough to make a tumpline, and some left over.
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