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Post by longtrail on Apr 2, 2008 18:38:27 GMT -5
Nothing new under the sun. Same rant heard almost 3o years ago. About people not wanting to dress traditional while at rendezvous.
It just isn't important to some people to appear traditional. Their main interests are elsewhere.
Some people who might be impressed with traitional clothing etc, just don't know where to start.
Clothing is where most people begin to "get primitive" and eventually end up getting the whole camp and family that way. Eventually it isn't only important to dress time period but to be concerned with even the containers your food is brought to rendezvous in, and one step further, what foods are time period. What is your bedding made of, how one starts a fire, when only flint and steel will do.
I spent many years getting my family and myself,time period ~Rocky Mountain Mountain Man era~ time period. Lots of research and time put in to clothing and accoutrement construction. Most people just don't want to or can't invest that much time, money and effort. Cause thats what it takes.
I think thats why serious "buckskinners" seek out organizations such as AMM. They have amazing rendezvous. I went to a western NMLRA porkeaters doings once, and hell there were women walking around in southern belle dresses and all garb in between.
At the end of that rendezvous, when everyone was gone and the federalies came in to clean up, there were so many piles of shit in the woods and beer cans stuffed down goper holes that NMLRA was banned from ever going back there again.
One really neat contest I have seen held at Amm doings, is a prize given for the camp, once broke, looked the least like anyone had ever been there. Refreshing for sure.
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Post by beaudro on Apr 2, 2008 19:03:25 GMT -5
I see it getting worse LT, In the past four years I have yet to see many new comers, and ones that will stay. I never seen anyone go and not like it enough to go a second time, but it's happening. I should admit i'm serious about it, and I don't expect anyone to take it to extremes, but I would like a little courtesy about my own endeavour. Such as parking a truck in camp all night, friday night and saturday night. Or how about a car and a truck last weekend. This is not exactly a rant , i just think it's about doing your part of participating in the best manner possible. The rules usually say to be period dressed, no peep sights, etc. etc.. but does anyone enforce those rules? I guess if they did too many would have to move on. This really means an effort to promote a better events, several around here are fading out as it is. It would mean alot to me, and all my pardners if we could just help out anyone that wants to improve.
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Post by longtrail on Apr 2, 2008 23:36:46 GMT -5
I agree Beaudro~ When I was involved with Amm and other primitive groups, and their functions during the 80's and 90'. It seemed like it was always the same people who showed up. Year after year everyone got older and there would be one or two more who had passed on. And at the same time, there were very few, if any, young people who came and then came again. They did not seem to have the passion.
I was delighted when recently one of our own BR's mentioned he was about to join Amm, I am sorry that I can not remember who it was. But I was very happy to hear it.
I am totally glad about the WFT. I had started a women's organization inside the Amm but it was before the internet etc. (yes I'm ancient) It was pretty humble compared to the WFT. But we shared ideas on how to do everything involved, more primitive and inspired one another. It just takes the willingness to share knowledge with those who are seeking it.
One method I have seen to keep the cars out of camp, is to have the actual campsite far enough away from the parking lot, and inaccessble (sp?) by vehicle. It doesn't have to be too far, because some people are not able to go the distance. Just out of site of the parking area is sometimes enough. Some rendezvous have people with travois or carts who during certain hours of the day, help folks get their gear from their vehicle to the campsite. Folks are so glad they don't have to lug thier own gear to camp that they don't mind waiting for the cart or travios time. It limits the amount of gear because folks have to deal with getting it to camp in just one trip. Which makes them have to think about their camp and what a travelling mountain man might have carried with him. Nothing inspires one to go light like having to pack in a mile or so. You'd be surprised at what you really don't need in camp anymore! I am not saying most camps should be that far from the parking area. But some are. Sure some people will piss and moan but maybe if they don't want to just go that extra little bit, they don't need to be there. The people who are willing to go that extra bit will enjoy a nice quiet camp, lacking vehicle noise and will enjoy the more primitive appearance of their surroundings. If you allow people to drive into camp to set up camp, well it just doesn't work. Then you have to have dog soldiers to remind them of the rules and insist they remove thier vehicles and lots of folks don't like being told what to do. So it is easier to just make the camp impossible to drive to. Some rendezvous I have gone to have been divided in half. One side is the tin-tipi section and not far from that the primitive section. It didn't seem to piss anyone off. And we actually use to get some converts who turned out to be life long primitives and our camp friends for years. They would come over to see what was going on and would be so inspired that they too would want to camp like we were, and have all the traditional things we had in our camp. It is fantastic if you can get into a group of people who are always trying to improve their camp and out do eachother, but in a teaching, sharing way. Speaking of Dog soldiers, I have been to rendezvous where dog soldiers walked camp and checked for blatant rule breakers. If you have flyers out or someway to let people know what is to be expected of them as far as their clothing and camp, well either they will think they can do it or they cant. If you are organizing a rendezvous for basically greenhorns, then ease them into it. Ask that their appearance be primitive as possible but allow them to have what ever theywant in their camp as long as it is covered. Let them know ahead of time that while vehicles are not allowed past the parking area, there will be a way for them to get thier gear to camp. Just some ideas for you or for anyone to consider. Not trying to be the Queen. Was never my intention.
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Post by paskinner on Apr 3, 2008 7:08:22 GMT -5
I guess it must be different here in the east. Seems like the F&I events I've visited or camped at were fairly strict. Not that modern stuff isn't there, but it's mostly kept out of sight. They also don't care for out of place stuff, like western style beadwork and such, at least Fort Frederick was that way (made me put my "war shirt" away, even) and I think Fort Niagra is very strict, but then, they are not only re-acting a time period but actual dates when battles happened.
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Post by beaudro on Apr 3, 2008 8:52:03 GMT -5
Yes, PA, those French and Indian War events have remained in tact and most are doing well in the colonial reenactments also, everything is looking up for those guys. The problem seems to be just rendezvous. I don't think it's a location thing, as I hear about it on other forums most of the serious re-enactors even up in new york have spoken about not letting "rendezvour's" into their F&I group. I've been mostly west and midwest and have seen the lack of effort in rendezvous groups. It's been a big effort of mine to find better ones, but it hasn't happened yet. For an example... Melisa and I picked out the events for last month, printed the maps and rules. As we read the rules on this last one, it states no vehicles in camp permitted after 8 pm friday night, thats typical, however the rangemasters son drove in around 7 to visit his dad and left his truck parked in front of my camp until almost 11:00 pm. At the same time, the booshway had a visitor who drove his car into camp thinking it was ok to park in camp. That was an event in Texas last weekend, Here in Oklahoma at the infamous Woolaroc event they had to go around and ask everyone on saturday morning to get dressed in period gear, as most people anymore have decided to change into the proper attire just any ole time they would like. At least they did something about it there, I attended one event in Missouri where the shoot was cancelled because of lack of interest. I think I counted 50 camps at that one,, nobody wanted to even shoot. At Raton New Mexico, one of the biggest events held on NRA grounds, several left coolers outside un covered, although thats not the worst thing they could do, they piled up beer cans and made a historical pyramid or tipi, i'm not sure which was the intention. As many as 400 camps at that one held a full week long. Only two people sold or used brain tan at Raton, myself and Wes Housler Sr. Lt, as far as I know i'm the only one here in the AMM, that must be me your referring to.
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Post by paskinner on Apr 3, 2008 9:35:06 GMT -5
We took a walk around the big eastern primitive in Lancaster county, PA, this last year and there were several people selling braintan. Saw some of the uglist braintan for over 20 bucks a foot, but there was some decent stuff there too, one dryscaper had really nice hides.
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Post by beaudro on Apr 3, 2008 10:17:24 GMT -5
real nice to see braintan on the market, even better at events like that. I seen some on ebay a while back that was noted "the green marks on the hides are caused from the braintanning process",,, i never ask why the green stuff... think his were 18 bucks a square too. I think one of the most beautiful things I've seen was a brain tan 2 hide dress, quilled and had really nice fringe. I couldn't help but to notice the fringe, something was different about it, the lady replied that she just simply cut it by hand, with a butcher knife... now that is crafty. This was an AMM event , you gotta check one of those out sometime. PA, i bet Lancaster is a pretty good place to visit, wonder if anyone can count all the guns that came out of there?
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Post by beaudro on Apr 3, 2008 10:44:47 GMT -5
LT, some of the events still use the dog soldiers around here, it's a good thing. As with anything some go too far, some don't go far enough. I've done it, I've stayed up all a few times and kept an eye on camp fires, thats one of the best benefits of having them. For most groups it would be in terrible taste for a patrol to run around and nit pick at everyone, and I havn't seen any that do too bad. PC police, thread counters, and so on is really bad taste for a family oriented event. I think they have dropped using dog soldiers because that problem has occured. What really needs to happen , or what I would like to see, is a motivation of efforts. I hear way too many people talking about how many years they have been going to rendezvous and they still aren't any better than the first day they started however. I'm pointing out problems and ranting, what I'm really wanting to do is motivate people and I hope we all can do that. Inspiration is another influence needed in this. I think it would trigger peoples interest plenty if brain tanning, bead work, quill work, spinning, and any other craft could show up at small events and promote a little study. Maybe thats what I should do, i have done brain tanning at events, i stopped because of all the stuff i had to carry along. I also thought i was spending my time working instead of enjoying myself. I'll admit , thats a selfish thing to do. maybe thats the key to this.
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Post by Buckskin Billy on Apr 3, 2008 12:14:18 GMT -5
at the southwestern in 2005 i had set my camp up a week prior to the voo. i was only gonna get to stay for 3 days,so my time was limited. i got off work had my "mountain man" clothes with me and just hauled ass to get there before dark. thinking i would change when i got to my camp. boy was i wrong. the ole boy running the gate knew me and would not let me in cuz i wasn't dress. had to change in my truck. why don't they let him run all the voos. i didn't complain a bit. i knew what was required, but i've seen at other voos people wearing levis with house slipper mocs and a period correct shirt, carry a gun with fiber optic sights. that should be a no no. not every one can afford to buy braintan or has the time to put in making it. get a smoke colored commercial tan deer hide and put the suede side out. i've seen fall front trousers for around 30 bucks about what a pair of painters pants cost. i would recommed to a greenhorn get your look down first. the clothes are the cheapest to buy. then get your camp set and keep it simple. i've seen big ole fire boxes that you could cook for a army on and took up a hull truck bed. you don't need that. make a tripod out of tree branches,lash them together with a rope or a trap, get a cook pot a tin cup and your set. and you ain't spent $8000000000000000000000000000000000 on your cook set. a king size bed sheet treated in linseed oil and paint thiner will make a good tent and be more period correct than any other tent at the voo. but i know i'm preaching to the chior here but maybe theres a greenhorn out there that just learned something new
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Post by beaudro on Apr 3, 2008 12:36:25 GMT -5
Thats it Billy, just back in 2005 the better events had rules as that one. That same one today was allowing to dress only on saturday. So you could have gotten into that one dressed in street clothes this year. I realize in the past there has always been problems, but the last couple of years it has really gone down hill.
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Post by longtrail on Apr 3, 2008 15:29:44 GMT -5
Some companies that sell factory tanned leather have a color called "Oatmeal". It is pretty close to the color of some brain tan.
Here is a great trick I learned many years ago. If you have factory tanned hides that are of any brown or tan color. You can use RIT color remover to take most of the factory die out of them so they look more the natural color. My first ever leather "mountain man era" style dress was made of factory tanned leather.... sort of a orangish/brown from what I can recall. I just put the whole dress in a large container with hot water and the RIT color remover and swished it around and dunked it in and out so all areas of the leather were effected by the Rit and it came out a nice light brown. We had a guy show up at rendezvous in a set of brand spankin new yellowish colored factory tanned leather. He was sort of a short round fellow and was known from then on as YELLER PIG.
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Post by longtrail on Apr 3, 2008 15:31:40 GMT -5
Rit~ you have to let it soak for a while too. forgot to say that. and make sure your container is large enough to easily hold lots of hot water and your item to avoid streaks or blotches.
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Post by longtrail on Apr 3, 2008 15:33:42 GMT -5
Yes.... I know DYE not DIE.....
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