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Post by paskinner on Feb 15, 2008 14:13:07 GMT -5
I use ta do it that way. Now what I prefer on big hides is to go ahead and wring the hide, brain it once and stretch it on a frame to dry. They soak up a whole lot easier and soften real nice.
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Post by Buckskin Billy on Feb 15, 2008 14:41:13 GMT -5
thanks paskinner.i'll give that a try.i had a hide that i acidified.then when i brained it and wringed,i was not able to soften it cause of rain.i let it dry and rebrained it and its turned out nice.haven't got to smoke it yet.think when i smoke it i'll rebrain again cuz it's so thick
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Post by longtrail on Mar 1, 2008 15:48:07 GMT -5
I have never tried the bucking method using lye? I was wondering if the chemicals are used to avoid having to dehair the hide? Do you still have to remove the epidermis? I doubt if I will try it, but just wondered. Thanks lt
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Mar 1, 2008 17:23:50 GMT -5
I did one and left the hair on but I used a wooden thing I made I think they call a slicker and just pushed the hair off . When you use lye or lime you still have to grain it .Hope I answered you question .
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Post by longtrail on Mar 1, 2008 22:26:24 GMT -5
So then exactly what purpose does the lime or lye serve? Does it soak into the hide making it easier to soften because it breaks the hide down? Thanks Co
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Post by joanne on Mar 2, 2008 8:33:26 GMT -5
It kills the bacteria for the most part. but for the other part it is supposed to be getting rid of mucus and glues at least that has been my impression. I had the same experience as Cody did for a very long time and by the time I figured out that all those skins would have come out better had I used the KOH well I kind of swore off of the alkali's all together. So yep I really worked pretty hard guess trying to save a few bucks ($) has it's drawbacks.. I just kind of concluded after a long while that using these alkali's has it's drawbacks.. Really the bucking stuff will buy you some time when those nasty bacterial causing the skins to be stinking are an issue.. to me.. I'd rather avoid the issue of letting the skins OR the brains get to the point where there are getting ripe. I just read this comment on the taxidermy.net forum the other day. Re: Hair removal formula or prefered products « Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 06:13:41 AM » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- KOH, potassium hydroxide will do a nice job.. and is a bit faster than the lime. There is a lot to be aware of when "bucking a hide" however, Not only are you loosening the hair but you are actually dissolving the skin itself. If left too long in the buck your hide will turn to goo... A properly bucked hide will feel rubber-like and the hair will slip with a minimum of light scraping. Don't bother with the acid step if you are going to pickle...just rinse well and put into the pickle.. www.braintan.com for more info on bucking.. This guy is seemingly talking out of both sides of the mouth I think. These folks on the taxidermy.net site are far into the chemistry aspects of tannages.. all tannages. when you neutralize your skin you are stopping the action of the bucking ingredient completely. So essentially you are killing the bacteria and well just dissolving some of whatever your hide is made up of. I asked a question about whether if you choose not to use the bucking agents at all in tanning a skin if the skins would therefore be superior to skins that have been bucked. No one answered my question.. either it is because it is a no-brainer, or they didn't want to offend anyone that is a bonified hide bucker, or they honestly dunno.. so the heck with it, if I can come up with a consistent way of Not using these harsh alkali's I'm going to choose that method for sure.. just have to realize what it takes to grow bacteria. If you treat your skins like fresh meat that you don't want to 'brown' then I guess you're going to be alright. so what I chose to do. I have read braintan.com for like 4 years straight..(or more) and when ever folks have a hard time softening their skins the tip that usually manages to solve the problem is to simply smoke the skin, stick it in the warm brains and and soften it again. so smoke, brains, and elbow grease. This is probably why your method is one that I'd wished I'd come across and stuck with first, personally.. not knocking Matt's method here but I think if you're going to do it that way then you really need to buy all the stuff matts selling including the dvd. Seems better to buy your dvd and just apply the elbow grease LT. (and not have to spend more money). I wish I hadn't argued the issue with anyone but hope anyone reading my notes will all keep in mind that there is 'a lot to be aware of' when bucking hides. Guy can say that again. JMO.. Cody. took me two years to figure out that you had to 'agitate' the residue in the skins out when you use lime to buck with. I feel for you as that whole deal left ME agitated. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was causing it.. it was eventually Matt himself that wrote about exposing air to skins with lime residue in them. it causes the skins to glue up like sheetrock.. Rinsing alone didn't work.. maybe the washers would take care of that.. but really.. I give up on that crap and LT.. I look forward to trying things the way you and Joe have been doing them for YEARS now.. sounds tried and true and you do have the pics to prove it so.. good nuff for me.. (TOO MUCH SAID) I really hope that all this doesn't DISTURB folks too much. It did take a lot of trials and errors with buckskins before I TRULY felt disturbed and hopefully my own feelings of feeling DISTURBED will dissipate along with that heavy smoky smell from freshly smoked skins..lol. For what it's worth. Paulette
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Post by Buckskin Billy on Mar 2, 2008 10:27:46 GMT -5
me and grizz were fleshing some hide yesterday that he got from a processor. after all thats been said about weather to buck or not. grizz took it upon hisself to try and grain a hide that had not been bucked. he hollered at me and i gave it whirl and was impressed. it grained preatty damn easy. we didn't finish that hide, cuz of time and all we set out to do was to get them fleshed. i'm no expert and damn sure don't no much about all of this. i've been tanning hides for 2 years now so i'm still a bit green at this. but i've seen discussions on this here and on other sites as well. i've only have used koh,and if i can let them soak for 3-4 days they grain with ease. any longer it is "iffy", i have no experiance with lime or lye. not to offend anyones method JUST WHAT I HAVE NOTICED from all the discussions on it,it seems to me the ones who use lime or lye have the most trouble. and i've offten wonder if they are rinseing enough. i'm lucky enough to have a pond real close,as long as the hide is submerged completely i have no problems. the only real problem i've had with brain tanning is from leaving the hides in the koh too long.i had 4 hide soaking back around thanksgiving and was not able to get to them like i had planned. they soaked well over a week and were a bitch to grain, so i've come to the conclusion of staying on top of your hides.
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Post by joanne on Mar 2, 2008 11:05:33 GMT -5
You're going to get more 'residual' grain possibly.. well at least of a 'freshscraped' skin.. one where you might just grain a hide after fleshing..(soon after an animals dead and skinned, dubbed 'freshscraping') I like it in one respect that these skins will stick to the surface of your beam and not slipslide all over it.. I don't know about the residual grain if you soaked a skin for 24 hrs first because if you do that then the skin will be MOST hydrated and it could only prove to 'scrape cleaner' by doing this.. and soaking any skins at all will only prove to help remove more of the glues and the ground substances as well.. but seems the older or longer I do this the more I just don't give a darn if I have streaky looking skins, long as they're beadably soft what do I care about skins that look like they were processed in the 'factory' so there's probably a benefit to at least soaking hides for 24 hours in plain water as apposed to just immediately scraping them.. there's a ton of variables here.
Just like in graining these really substantial skins here.. you really want to use a narrower beam to scrape the heaviest grained necks.. It will really make a difference in ease of grain removal.. yeah it is another way to get some really nicely muscled arms.. That's how I got them.. I didn't want BIG arms however.
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Mar 2, 2008 14:26:15 GMT -5
I have been washing my fur hides in Borax to kill bactirea .Here in the south it is a trial to keep stuff from going bad as it will be ice covered one day this time of year and may be in a teeshirt tonight .I like billy and Joanne am getting tired of the chemical thing .Anouther thing that gets us ( Billy Griz and me) is we only have the weekend and we have to plan things to fall just right and if you miss that weekend you probly lose that hide .
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Post by paskinner on Mar 2, 2008 22:38:31 GMT -5
So then exactly what purpose does the lime or lye serve? Does it soak into the hide making it easier to soften because it breaks the hide down? Thanks Co The lye makes hides easier to soften, IF you get all the alkali completely neatralized. There is a portain in your video where you talk about that the white gunk coming out of the hide is the hide glue. I believe you are correct and what bucking does is remove SOME of those hide glues a bit easier than manual labor. A lot of people do have problems with getting hides completely rinsed and if they don't have a consistant way to do it I agree that they are better off not bucking at all. For me, I've finally got to the point where I can get the ph of the rinsed hide where I want it or close enough to get hides that soften pretty good. I personally do not like scraping bucked hides, they are slippery and nasty, so I just scrape water soaked hides and avoid all the mess. I don't know if anyone else does this, but on real tough necks, I use a sharper knife on the top few inches and just go real slowly. It really helps on softening some of those big buck necks.
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Mar 3, 2008 10:24:52 GMT -5
What do you buck with PA?Im like you bucked hides are nasty ,we are in a nasty buisseness I guess.I have a peice of 3" pvc for them hard ones .Hey maybe we ought to try to create a hybred deer that dont have a neck!
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Post by paskinner on Mar 3, 2008 16:51:31 GMT -5
What do you buck with PA?Im like you bucked hides are nasty ,we are in a nasty buisseness I guess.I have a peice of 3" pvc for them hard ones .Hey maybe we ought to try to create a hybred deer that dont have a neck! I'm using KOH now. Used to be able to get Red Devil Lye at the grocery store, but no more. I like the KOH better anyway, and if you buy it in bulk it's not that expensive. I've also made my own lye out of wood ashes, but once you start doing a lot of hides it's too time consuming and it tends to stain the hides.
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