|
Post by paskinner on Jul 11, 2011 14:58:49 GMT -5
about bark tanning. I've had some deer hides pickled for quite awhile, but not enough solution to do them. Pushing hides into little barrels to barktan isn't real effecient. Now, if I can just get this thing full and keep the solution strong enough!
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 11, 2011 16:13:36 GMT -5
thats big! I only use a 55 gallon, plastic drum. I get about 3 large hides in it , 2/3rds full of water. The quebracho that I've been using .. I think I start out with 2 cups full, then increase it after maybe a week. I may be getting by on luck, but I've had no failures yet, and I'm real lazy about working them. I've also been soaking deer skins first, save the mix, then with the last mix I just throw in 2 small elk hides, and strengthen the mix again after a week. Each hide sure is different, in the same mix one will turn out almost black, another dark brown, and another a real light buckskin color. I did notice each hide had a big difference in thickness, thats the norm for the hides I get. If they are really light in color I'll leave it a little longer, except for one I tried and it seemed to be just fine. I would like to see in person what your barktan looks like PA, and how it feels. To be honest, because this has been so easy for me, it just don't seem like I'm doing something right. But my leather feels ok, it will soften up and stay soft, and it looks great. Compared to braintanning, it's just been so much easier. I can leave it for a month in the liquor , take it out, gently wring it , oil it and soften for maybe 30 minutes. I can do three hides in a couple of hours. Might be a little longer if I want them really soft, but i'm real happy to have a utility leather that i'm getting right now.
|
|
|
Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Jul 11, 2011 19:23:25 GMT -5
Now thats big sizeing it PA. Ive been useing a 55 cut in half .How long do yall use the same solution? I really like the way they come out ,havent made anything with it yet but plan to make a hunting bag for squirrel hunting with my Hatfield .36
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 11, 2011 23:22:38 GMT -5
Cody, my mix gets used the first time with three good size hides, the first 7 days is a weak solution then I strengthen it after that. I'll pour about half of it out when those hides are done, then fill it back to 2/3's with water , and start three more. PA can probably tell me how to do it better , but I go by the smell of the stuff. The guy that makes bibles, www.18thcenturybibles.org/Welcome.html , James Moore love this stuff, if you want a bible he offers a great trade for barktan.
|
|
|
Post by paskinner on Jul 12, 2011 9:52:56 GMT -5
Naw, Beaudro, you could probably teach me a thing or two about barktanning, I still haven't done that many. As far as strength, I'm planning on going with as much sumac bark as I have and I'm going to add quebacho if I think it needs it. I've been real lazy about it and re used solution too much, lost some furs, but kind of play it by ear, which is probably why I get some hides that turn out much softer than others. It's all good, though, just different uses for different hides.
I have no lack of hides, so decided to forget buying those old bath tubs from the junk yard, and think big!
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 12, 2011 10:06:29 GMT -5
I only have a lack of big quality hides , I can get a bunch of small damaged hides too easy. I think this fall when I start tanning I'll barktan the small deer and braintan the larger ones where they can be used for clothing.
|
|
|
Post by paskinner on Jul 12, 2011 21:14:55 GMT -5
I'm sort of doing the same thing. All the best hides get braintanned. If I flesh one that has more defects than I like, or is just smaller than I want to mess with, I save it for barktanning.
|
|
|
Post by whitedove on Jul 12, 2011 21:38:39 GMT -5
These are beautiful Leather binders/covers..I especially liked the prayer books and songs.This is a most interesting site.There are so many colors of leather binders for the books.It was also fascinating to see how the binders were made.Lots of good Literature.... I currently have a Leather binder on my BIBLE.It has a scripture engraved Jeremiah 29:11..it is very comforting.As a singer, I have always had interest in old music,which is always found in the old hymnals.I read thru this site,it was very informative."Lots of good information."
|
|
|
Post by paskinner on Jul 14, 2011 10:22:17 GMT -5
Not quite half full-that's two 30 gallon barrels of sumac bark. I simmered, but didn't boil it, in my trap boiling rig. Now that I've got a half dozen hides in there, I sure hope it's strong enough. Smells exactly like fermenting silage, a bit different then the quebacho. Anyone got historical accounts of how the pioneers bark tanned hides?
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 14, 2011 22:01:34 GMT -5
PA, the book Joseph Doddridge has about the best examples of actual bark tanning, in the early settlements. It's about your part of the country as well. page 165 , digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/pageviewer-idx?type=simple;c=pitttext;cc=pitttext;idno=00age8892m;q1=bark;didno=00age8892m;rgn=full%20text;view=image;seq=0167Every family tanned their own leather. The tan vat was a large trough sunk to the upper edge in the ground. A quantity of bark was ... lime for taking off the hair. Bears' oil, hog's lard and tallow, answered the place of fish oil. The leather, to be sure, was coarse; but it was substantially good. The operation of currying.. by a drawing knife with its edge turned, after the manner of a currying knife. The blacking for the leather was made of soot and hog's lard. Almost every family contained its own tailors and shoemaker The whole book needs to be read , there are other pages about tanning other than page 165. I noticed the draw knife (edge turned) , now i'll have to add that to my quest for finding tanning tools.
|
|
|
Post by paskinner on Jul 15, 2011 8:34:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the references! This goat hide was only in there about 24 hours and has quite a bit of color.
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 15, 2011 12:08:18 GMT -5
I'd say the solution was strong enough , for what I have done I don't see any color for several days on deer skins. I probably got the idea off braintan.com , I start out weak and build the solution up. That might not mean anything though, we all know how everyone has their own methods.
|
|
|
Post by paskinner on Jul 15, 2011 17:00:06 GMT -5
When barktanning was discussed on paleoplanet, the concensus seemed to be that the case hardening applyed more to large hides like cow and pig and wouldn't be a problem with deer. I'm not so sure now, because I did have a couple deer that seemed to reach a certain point and stop absorbing.
Everything I've read about sumac says you can't make it too strong, but I haven't found a thing about sumac bark, either, they always talk about leaves and buds. There used to be a market for dried sumac leaves. I'll see if I can find the book online where I read about that. I guess I'll find out eventually if I made it too strong.
|
|
|
Post by ThunderMoon on Jul 15, 2011 20:36:48 GMT -5
WOW,is there an oder or does the tannin cover it up?My mountain man buddy told me he used to tan hides or soak them in his financial office,his dad owned a title company..He had a barrel or something in there and it was topped of with a slab of wood like a table..
|
|
|
Post by beaudro on Jul 15, 2011 23:16:45 GMT -5
I've only worked elk and deer , but one of the deer skins I've done just never seemed to absorb , even when the others did. I remember leaving it about 3 weeks longer, after pulling the others out. It never softened very well so I know something wasn't right, the hide was actually as thin as the others. for whatever reason it was like that I don't know. I found a use for it after currying , so it wasn't a loss. If I was doing this for profit I would have buckle down and get a program going, but I'm producing what I need and it meets my expectations. I still think the best thing to do is stir, and stir, and stir , you can see in historical paintings where someone is stirring the vats. I tried to cheat and rigged up a pump , the pressure kept the hides moving around and the solution stayed mixed well.... but it didn't seem to help like it did when I stirred with a broom handle the first time... I quit using the pump after that, I swore that pump was a good idea.
|
|