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Post by beaudro on Jul 13, 2011 11:16:06 GMT -5
I'm finding that only a tanner really knows what a fleshing knife really is. It's mistaken for a drawknife around many rendezvous. I want to find a picture, or any documentation of hide tanning tools , not Native made. The wahintke , being for dry scaping and well known for scraping buffalo hides had a metal blade, or at least many of them did, and some of those blades were made in England and ended up out west in the rendezvous supposedly, I cannot find any proof of that either. I'm not exactly trying to figure out if they were dry scraping, or wet scraping , but the fleshing knife would be mainly for wetscrape. The one hint, from the known journals, that a fleshing knife might exist is from Rufus Sage: His shantee faces a huge fire, and is formed of skins carefully extended over an arched frame-work of slender poles, which are bent in the form of a semi-circle and kept in their places by inserting their extremities in the ground. Near this is his "graining block," planted aslope, for ease of the operative in preparing his skins for the finishing process in the art of dressing; and not far removed is a stout frame, contrived from four pieces of timber, This is the best documentation of wet-scraping, and it appears obvious he will use a fleshing tool to remove the grain layer. There is also Lewis and Clark wetscraping, as they mention the need for ashes and brains. The tool exists, there's no doubt, and possibly in many forms. Diderot's 18th century encyclopedia shows a good deal of pictures of tanneries , but operating in large factories. This is where the tool shows up the most , but it does not show up in inventories or journals in the western fur trade. As many hides that were tanned out west there are few tools mentioned, it's odd because any and all other types of tools are mentioned, such as adze, axes, chisels , froes, shovels, pick axe, and the list goes on and on. It could be that dry scraping was the most common method, and possibly because wetscraping involves the need for more tools, which might be too much to keep in supply. When the wahintke shows up in journals, it's as if the whites are surprised a little, they normally mention it as a primitive crude tool, as something they would not be using. Later in the fur trade as the blades for this scraper become a small trade item, it appears that the whites were trying to keep the natives in supply of tools so they get more buffalo hides. Just speaking of "dressed deer skins" , for clothing. Trappers themselves would braintan their own many times , and the hide brought more dollar if it was dressed. That tool used at this point is the one I'm after.
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Post by beaudro on Jul 13, 2011 11:39:05 GMT -5
I might add a few more journal entries for tanning.. You have to be careful when you read the journals. Some are written by men that do not know tanning, they will use the word "graining" when they refer to making buffalo robes. Other times they are actually graining buffalo for the use of making a lodge. It takes some interpretion of what they are saying.. and most likely only tanners will understand this today.
Ruxton: Some hunters, who have married Indian squaws, carry about with them the Indian lodge of buffalo-skins, which are stretched in a conical form round a frame of poles. Near the camp is always seen the "graining-block," a log of wood with the bark stripped and perfectly smooth, which is planted obliquely in the ground, and on which the hair is removed from the skins to prepare them for being dressed. There are also "stretching-frames," on which the skins are placed to undergo the process of dubbing, which is the removal of the flesh and fatty particles adhering to the skin, by means of the "dubber," an instrument made of the stock of an elk's horn. The last process is the "smoking," which is effected by digging a round hole in the ground and lighting in it an armful of rotten wood or punk. Three sticks are then planted round the hole, and their tops brought together and tied. The skin is then placed on this frame, and all the holes by which the smoke might escape carefully stopped: in ten or twelve hours the skin is thoroughly smoked and ready for immediate use.
George Catlin: In the view I have made of it, but a small Portion of the village is shewn; which is as well as to shew the whole of it, inasmuch as the wigwams, as well as the customs, are the same in every part of it. In the foreground is seen the wigwam of the chief; and in various parts, crotches and poles, on which the women are Drying meat, and "graining" buffalo robes. These people, living in a country where buffaloes are abundant, make their wigwams more easily of their skins, than of anything else; George Catlin again: The robes ofthe animals are worn by the Indians instead of blankets -- their skins when tanned, are used as coverings for their lodges, and for their beds; undressed, they are used for constructing canoes -- for saddles, for bridles -- l'arrets, lasos, and thongs. The horns are shaped into ladies and spoons -- the brains are used for dressing the skins-their bones are used for saddle trees -- for war clubs, and scrapers for graining the robes
Ruxton, again: Early in the morning the hunter mounts his mule and examines the traps. The captured animals are skinned, and the tails, which are a great dainty, carefully packed into camp. The skin is then stretched over a hoop or framework of osier-twigs, and is allowed to dry, the flesh and fatty substance being carefully scraped (grained).
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Post by beaudro on Jul 14, 2011 9:49:53 GMT -5
You sure do a bunch of work Joanne , I don't see many tanning tools showing up in museums, and even around good historians it's not something they are highly interested in. I contribute the lack of interest to PETA and other groups, even some museums shy away from displaying traps. It's not a topic that some historical institutions want to talk about when they are trying to make money around liberal animal rights areas. It's obvious there are many tools that were made for tanneries, curriers, and the buffalo hide trade. This makes it hard to find what I'm looking for. I'm looking for examples of any and all tanning tools that would have been bought, traded and used by the fur companies, before 1850 or so. I've only got the one Diderot example and I may have to go with just that. I'm going to attempt making one, if it's half good I'll post a picture of it.
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Jul 14, 2011 17:40:31 GMT -5
beaudro I was doing some control work for a chicken farmer down here and he told me the suppliers made him go to a school to learn the most humane way to wring a chickens neck (you know the 3 and 4 legged ones) so if PETA had hiden cameras they wouldnt protest......idiots
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Jul 14, 2011 17:41:43 GMT -5
joanne did you dry scrape your buff? Mine was small enough to wet scrape but I didnt grain it it was hair on
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Post by beaudro on Jul 14, 2011 22:47:37 GMT -5
thats about right Cody. We have a huge history in fur, for many years it was a form of currency. It's actually hard for a museum not to reflect on that, but they are finding ways. A lot of museums are ran by Universities, thats where the young protesters are coming from. Andy Warhol art is in demand, but nobody wants to see Alfred Jacob Miller's taking of the humb rib, at least in major museums. The small museums can't afford much. Lots of real education is being lost.
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Post by beaudro on Jul 16, 2011 9:11:09 GMT -5
Thats a cool knife Joanne , I'm finding theres not much difference in the modern fleshing knives and the historical. The one in your picture looks like a few I've seen from England in the last few days of searching. For what it's worth, in my opinion the early tanneries would have gotten their tools from English makers since they produced the most steel , and it hasn't changed much since. As soon as I can I'm going to fire up my forge and start making one.
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Jul 16, 2011 16:29:16 GMT -5
funny how they look like a rib bone aint it . Joanne how did it compare to graining deer?
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Post by JoAnne2Crows on Jul 16, 2011 17:45:42 GMT -5
Yep! They do. I will say this for the bone fleshers.. they are much more gentle on the thinner more hole prone areas of a skin, ie. legs and belly areas where it's easy to make a hole with a steel bar for graining. Bone is a lot less likely to MAKE a hole! But now for the majority of that bison it didn't grain much more difficult than fresh scraping a deer hide and I've done a LOT of that.. some of the deer are real hard to grain the necks of. The monster ones! But some of those grain really well to.. it just makes way more sense to grain them fresh as adding the water to soak a big heavy skin just makes it twice as heavy. I used some washing soda in with the bison when I didn't get it totally grained. it smelled like bison for sure but not rotting skin!
the hump has a large spot of really thick grain on the spine where the hump is.. I think that is why the skins were cut in two down along the spine there.. probabably just cut that long spine strip right out. probably hard to thin that with stone bone OR steel.. unless it was a wahinkte with sharpened steel even so.. you can't get that from the flesh side at all. interesting. I really like working with the bison skins.
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Post by beaudro on Jul 16, 2011 22:47:28 GMT -5
the hump has a large spot of really thick grain on the spine where the hump is.. I think that is why the skins were cut in two down along the spine there.. probabably just cut that long spine strip right out. probably hard to thin that with stone bone OR steel.. unless it was a wahinkte with sharpened steel even so.. you can't get that from the flesh side at all. interesting. I really like working with the bison skins. thanks for the pics Joanne, the flesher in your pics is pressed out, or resembles one that is pressed, Thats the same way many originals may have been. Seeing a lot of them helps. On the buffalo hides, there are many original descriptions giving on the method of skinning. Once the buffalo was killed, the women came and would roll the buff on it's stomach. Then prop the legs underneath to support it. Since there was no way to hang one, this is the best way for them. First she cut down the back, from head to tail, then skin the hide off laying it out on each side of the buff. The meat was layed upon one side and the buff finally rolled off. The meat was then bundled up on the hide and taken to the drying racks. The hide was soon enough split down the middle of the stomach and then she had two hides to deal with. I know of at least 2 references where the hide was sewn back together down the back and then the hide was tanned as a full hide, all at once. Another shows the women splitting up the hides in two pieces and working them seperate, much later she sewed them back together. My best guess is it depended on the size, if she decided to sew it back before tanning. A small robe could be done this way. Also as to what the hide was going to be used for , on the lodges it might work to leave them seperate. It could also be the womans choice and the culture she learned from. After the tanning was done, the seam down the back was often covered up in quill work, I know you have seen that. Not many robes today are ever made this way, because in our modern world we will go and hang a buff and cut down the stomach first. I have been tempted to cut one of mine and re-stitch it just to make it look right... but I know the work involved in sewing that back up. For what it's worth nobody has ever ask me why there isn't a seam down the middle of them.
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Post by ThunderMoon on Jul 17, 2011 1:02:00 GMT -5
I have something like that half round scraper,it has a metal handle,i guess that's what it for,got it in a box of stuff i picked up at a yard sale if i remember right,back when i had an antique booth.Anybody need or wants it can have it.I have no use for it.I'll take a pic and post it and you all can tell me.
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Post by ThunderMoon on Jul 17, 2011 1:04:11 GMT -5
Makes my back hurt just lookin at that hide and i done had two ops on my back..You all have my respect and blessings that's for sure!I love to see you guys do it though..
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Post by JoAnne2Crows on Jul 17, 2011 9:02:43 GMT -5
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Post by Cody ( The Patriot ) on Jul 17, 2011 9:53:05 GMT -5
beaudro that is what I have read as well I reconed they made the world fit them the way they could.Ill be ready to do me another this winter hope I get as good a one as last time
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