Post by joanne2 on Aug 13, 2009 19:51:51 GMT -5
PA wrote"Not trying to discourage anyone from using natural materials, just warning that if it's not concentrated enough you'll know it when the hide starts to rot in the solution".
Oh, no you're not discouraging me at all.. there's so many different things to know that are quite basic when it comes to tanning and really with my use of the powerwashers, there literally isn't any membrane to remove.
Take this squirrel for instance.
At this point right here with this damp squirrel skin it is ready to absorb..whatever. seems much more intelligent to like say do the non traditional peel the bark off the sumac or willow sprouts..whathaveyou and rub it on or in. I've peeled plenty of willow sprouts to find my finders stained but good.. those are the tannins.. pretty strong concentration.. Might just be topical but it does sound pretty fascinating.
Just like many ways to oil tan.. this is bark treated tanning!
From Matt R's research-
"The accounts of native 'bark tanning' are remarkably similar. Soaking times in the bark solution are very short, so the amount of tannin actually being fixed is limited. Application of oils and softening seems to be optional. In some ways, it sounds more like they are making 'bark treated' rawhide or oil tan. Here for example, on one extreme, is a description of the Eskimo tanning of seal skins:
Eskimo:
"They scraped it off (the alder bark) in very fine pieces and rubbed it directly on the skin to be dyed. The dryer the skin the quicker it took the dye. Some skins required two or three applications. Then the sides were folded against each other and the skin was left in a cool place overnight. Shaken free of bark in the morning, it was rubbed and pulled with the hands in all directions. Worked, allowed to dry, worked etc., until it was dry and soft. Oil might be applied if the skin were too hard."
Secrets of Eskimo Skin Dressing
Talking about 'dyeing' but bark treating is what it is.
another note about that on these several pages of Richards says..
In the overnight examples of the Eskimo and Chukchee, the hides certainly aren't getting 'bark tanned' by any traditional sense of the term. But it does highlight the fact that you can do just about any degree of bark tanning and get some of the effects of tannin. Another example is when you dye brain tanned skins with tannins. Normal dye soaks are anywhere from ten minutes to overnight, and within those short periods of time, the tannin noticeably affects the hides. They contract and get a tighter feeling...more so the longer and stronger the tannin treatment.
Trying to really pin down when something is officially "bark tanned" may have some value, but a more important consideration is at what point has enough tannin bonded to enough proteins to get the effect that you, the tanner, are after."
It is all certainly fascinating and opens up a really big portal to just using all kinds of things to treat skins to. Your explorations have given you a lot of materials to work with. Very nice looking skins PA. I'm sure that your expertise makes them all the nicer just seems to be a whole lot of bother to do the furs with the long soaks!
Oh, no you're not discouraging me at all.. there's so many different things to know that are quite basic when it comes to tanning and really with my use of the powerwashers, there literally isn't any membrane to remove.
Take this squirrel for instance.
At this point right here with this damp squirrel skin it is ready to absorb..whatever. seems much more intelligent to like say do the non traditional peel the bark off the sumac or willow sprouts..whathaveyou and rub it on or in. I've peeled plenty of willow sprouts to find my finders stained but good.. those are the tannins.. pretty strong concentration.. Might just be topical but it does sound pretty fascinating.
Just like many ways to oil tan.. this is bark treated tanning!
From Matt R's research-
"The accounts of native 'bark tanning' are remarkably similar. Soaking times in the bark solution are very short, so the amount of tannin actually being fixed is limited. Application of oils and softening seems to be optional. In some ways, it sounds more like they are making 'bark treated' rawhide or oil tan. Here for example, on one extreme, is a description of the Eskimo tanning of seal skins:
Eskimo:
"They scraped it off (the alder bark) in very fine pieces and rubbed it directly on the skin to be dyed. The dryer the skin the quicker it took the dye. Some skins required two or three applications. Then the sides were folded against each other and the skin was left in a cool place overnight. Shaken free of bark in the morning, it was rubbed and pulled with the hands in all directions. Worked, allowed to dry, worked etc., until it was dry and soft. Oil might be applied if the skin were too hard."
Secrets of Eskimo Skin Dressing
Talking about 'dyeing' but bark treating is what it is.
another note about that on these several pages of Richards says..
In the overnight examples of the Eskimo and Chukchee, the hides certainly aren't getting 'bark tanned' by any traditional sense of the term. But it does highlight the fact that you can do just about any degree of bark tanning and get some of the effects of tannin. Another example is when you dye brain tanned skins with tannins. Normal dye soaks are anywhere from ten minutes to overnight, and within those short periods of time, the tannin noticeably affects the hides. They contract and get a tighter feeling...more so the longer and stronger the tannin treatment.
Trying to really pin down when something is officially "bark tanned" may have some value, but a more important consideration is at what point has enough tannin bonded to enough proteins to get the effect that you, the tanner, are after."
It is all certainly fascinating and opens up a really big portal to just using all kinds of things to treat skins to. Your explorations have given you a lot of materials to work with. Very nice looking skins PA. I'm sure that your expertise makes them all the nicer just seems to be a whole lot of bother to do the furs with the long soaks!